Options for 2016

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Options for 2016 Empty Splitting vs Loyalty

Post  aardvark on Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:34 pm

I don't think a change to splotting the Defensive & Attacking should impact the loyalty players.

In the end - it is still only 4 points, (2+2).

The players who are in line for the 4 points taking Woods & gallen for example, are the players now that would always get their 4 points each week whilst others may not get the 40 combined week in week out.

and taking Woods as an example - if he were to hit the open market ever again - there is no way he'd be an 88k per year player - he would go for big money - doesn't matter what the rules were changed to.

As for the numbers - 35 & 15 ... That would equate to a combined of 50, so wouldn't go any higher than that initially as the 35 almost gets you the normal FT now (probably only the hookers who get stranded on the high 30s without any hitups would be the beneficiaries, but there will be a number who now get a FT with the combined 40 that won't receive either a defensive or attacking fwd in the proposed scheme as they have numbers like 32 tackles and 12 hitups)

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Options for 2016 Empty splitting

Post  Admin on Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:24 pm

I quite like the idea to split tackles and hit-ups. Maybe 2 points for 35+ tackles, and 2 points for 15 hitups? Is that not enough perhaps? Would only be a handful who would get both, so they would attract bigger bids and bigger chunks of salary cap (what it really means though is that we can't have loyalty players next year as it would be unfair that Showers get to keep Aaron Woods for $88,000 for example)

Not sure if I would give backs hit-up points, as their job is open field kick returns where the big forwards have to repeatedly put their hand up and have a go, which is rewarded currently

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Post  Horrie on Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:17 pm

Definitely happy with raising the forward tries up to at least 45. That may reflect the scores to be a little bit more like NRL scores.
Between 3 to 5 loyalty players works for me as well

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Post  arfer on Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:27 am

Another option for the FT issue would be to reduce the points awarded to perhaps 3

or better still award 2 for tackles, and 2 for runs/hit ups which would give an advantage to backs, halves and everyone. From this last weeks round, these are the players with > 18 runs/hit ups – quite a mixture including numerous backs – which I think is usually indicative of a good game and getting involved

Roger Tuivasa-Sheck 28
Paul Gallen 23
William Hopoate 23
Tom Trbojevic 22
Aiden Tolman 21
Trent Merrin 21
Aaron Woods 21
David Klemmer 19
Shaun Fensom 19
Paul Vaughan 19
Kevin Naiqama 19
Keith Galloway 19
Matthew Scott 19
Ryan James 18
Jack Wighton 18
Josh Dugan 18

These are the players with >40 tackles only

Elijah Taylor 76
Shaun Fensom 52
Simon Mannering 52
Trent Merrin 51
James Segeyaro 51
Matt Ballin 50
Nathan Peats 47
Matt McIlwrick 46
James Graham 45
Andrew McCullough 45
Robbie Farah 45
Cameron Smith 45
Michael Lichaa 44
Matt Gillett 44
Aiden Tolman 43
Anthony Watmough 43
Jeremy Latimore 42
Mike Cooper 41
Bodene Thompson 41
Tariq Sims 40
Tyson Frizell 40
Dylan Napa 40
Gavin Cooper 40

So Tolman, Fensom, Merrin & Gallen would get points for both, Elijah Taylor only for the tackling, Klemmer only for hit-ups and mouthing off


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Post  aardvark on Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:50 am


I am one who usually leans to the theory “if it aint broke don’t fix it” -> and the GC is a great concept

Loyalty players

First question – by the proposal, you have to nominate 5 different positions, and dual positions – you have to nominate which position you are taking them at – does this mean they then lose the 2nd or 3rd positions that they have ? … If this is the case, will make things more confusing and goes against the golden rule of the GC Comp – what is in the Bible is what we go by.. Also, then if a player reduced to 1 position is then released – is he then available at multi positions – makes the integrity of the spreadies a bit harder to keep 100%

My opinion on the 5 though, if we were to take 5 loyalty players, it would have an impact on all the other rounds – especially the round of 16 – which is the one all say is the most exciting. 5 players per team means that we would have then taken 86 players out of the equation rather than 48 (taking that there is the GK round and the 1 player from another team either side of the loyalty round)

As much as I would have loved extra players this season so I could choose as loyalty – the very difficult decision of which 2 to keep and then which player to take as a 3rd from any team is one of the difficult aspects of the comp that we all love -; as we say “It is the thinking man’s comp” (which I took from my own this season – and even then I kicked myself afterwards as it was the wrong decision) –….. putting loyalty players up to 5 will impact on this I feel and also make to ‘uneven the comp’ as a good side then gets to keep 5 players each season which forms a nucleus of the squad (20%) + 5 loyalty players would be based on ‘value for money’ most likely and could throw out the balance with the salary cap.

So for me – no change to Loyalty Players, the 2 players + 1 from the other team is enough as I wouldn’t like to impact on the Round of 16 bidding or the way the salary cap is working at the moment

Forward Tries

The graph that Tony has done is interesting – and confirms a feeling I had last year that there were less FTs than the 2 years before…. I also have the feeling that there is at least 1 ‘counter’ that counts the games different as there is usually 1 game each weekend that has much less of a tackle count and of course there are a couple that are way over..

Maybe last year they weren’t including the 3rd man in as much ?? … Also, there are many more delays in the game at the moment, so there is actually less football being played

If the Interchange rule changes – yes, this could have an impact on the stats – but maybe it will mean more backline plays rather than the forward hitups all the time – which is one of the things the rule change is hoping to bring about – so if this the situation, then tackle counts & hitups by the forwards would reduce as well.

Another thing is – that with either limited interchange or if they go the way once replaced you’re gone for the day - any forwards on the bench / replaced will have much lesser minutes, so they players who the ability to get a FT will also be reduced.

I’d be hesitant to change anything until we knew what the rule changes were going to be – and then after seeing what impact they had.

Key points being
– Reduced Interchange/replacement will mean more minutes for ½ but for the other half – the impact will be less players can earn a FT
- More backline involvement and less forward hitups / wresting or 3rd man in

My thoughts – no change at the moment but wait until we know what the rule changes are and then what the impact is….



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Post  arfer on Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:05 pm

I like the thinking Dave....

I agree next year the numbers need to be increased, depending on how the NRL implements the interchange changes (not sure yet if they've agreed to 8, or agreed to a "reduction"). I guess its hard to know what the effect will be until then, apart from the fact the 80 minute player will become most sought after.

Certainly the numbers have increased over the last two years - I'll do an assessment on this shortly.

Perhaps 45 is as good an estimate as any moving forward.

Loyalty Players
I think five may be too many from your own squad. I would prefer three at most, and then perhaps you can select two from other teams (or your own). This gives an advantage to the teams finishing lower the year before which is a great part of the recruitment.

It may be difficult to do this limited by position though, as these sometimes change and it may be difficult to manage - and ultimately may be unnecessary, I think we all generally try to over the core positions early i.e. FB, HK and would likely ensure we have those early in the recruitment.


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Post  Admin on Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:42 pm

Gents (as per email sent Easter Sunday)

Couple of items we have been bandying about at HQ may be implemented for next season, so we wanted to throw them out there in case there are some massive issues we have not considered :

1/ Forward Tries – raising the requirements from 40 to 45 or even 50 to coincide with the reduced interchange, otherwise the whole scoresheets would be green (it’s getting that way already)

2/ Loyalty Players – raising the limit from 2 to 5, HOWEVER they have to be 5 different positions (ie you can’t keep 5 hookers). This would work if you had a multi-positional player, as you have to nominate who and what position (ie if you had Brett Morris and Sam Perrett and they were both listed as FB / W, then one would be nominated to be kept in fullback position and the other in winger position. You then couldn’t keep someone like Manu Vatuvei as well. I hope that makes sense)

Everyone is in the same boat with regards to options as it is next year, so it is something to keep in mind for recruitment this year (we have seen next year strategies implemented before eg Stopouts recruiting SBW the year before he joined the Roosters so he could be a loyalty player)

Let me know if there are some obvious issues it would create that I didn't think of, or what you reckon.


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